Your Flickchart Top 20: Gift or Curse?
If you’re an avid Flickcharter, you’ve no doubt got a list of hundreds — if not thousands — of films ranked. From your all-time favorites to the dregs of cinema that you only wish you could un-see, to those middle-of-the-chart, ho-hum, so-so films whose ranks, while fun to try and get into their proper order, become somewhat interchangeable as they all share a common air of mediocrity.
Indeed, when it comes to your Flickchart, do you truly care whether Movie #667 is better than Movie #668? Does it even matter if Movie #236 is better than Movie #247?
What about global rankings? Does it matter to you if Flickchart’s users have V for Vendetta ranked higher than There Will Be Blood? Or that District 9 ranks higher than Best Picture Oscar-winner The Hurt Locker? Be honest: Does it really, really concern you that The Dark Knight outranks Star Wars as the #1 movie of all-time? As a movie fan, you know this fact to be either true or false; global rankings can be very useful in helping you find good movies that you haven’t seen yet, but when it comes to the films you do and don’t like, they aren’t necessarily going to sway your opinion.
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that, for most Flickcharters, the only list that really matters is that one that stares you in the face every time you come to the site: your personal Top 20. It’s the list that’s on-screen every time you rank; either causing you to constantly question it, or reaffirm that yes, yes these are, in fact, my favorite movies of all-time. The cream of the crop. The films that will smack down any others they come against in your Flickchart rankings.
It took me some time to work on my personal Top 20. There are movies that held spots on that list for months, before they fell away and now occupy the lower half of my Top 100 (Steven Spielberg’s Minority Report; David Fincher’s Fight Club). There are some movies I knew I loved, but didn’t make the grade until I saw them again (particularly Dean Parisot’s Galaxy Quest). There’s even one or two that took me completely by surprise when I found them on the list (Alfonso Cuarón’s Children of Men, I’m looking at you).
But after the past seven months of Flickcharting, I finally have a Top 20 list that is rock-solid. Every movie, I’ve decided, deserves to be there – and that list hasn’t changed in weeks now. For the record, here it is:
1. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001; Peter Jackson)
2. The Dark Knight (2008; Christopher Nolan)
3. Heat (1995; Michael Mann)
4. Memento (2001; Christopher Nolan)
5. The Prestige (2006; Christopher Nolan)
6. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989; Steven Spielberg)
7. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991; James Cameron)
8. Finding Nemo (2003; Andrew Stanton)
9. Aliens (1986; James Cameron)
10. Se7en (1995; David Fincher)
11. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003; Peter Jackson)
12. Apollo 13 (1995; Ron Howard)
13. Children of Men (2006; Alfonso Cuarón)
14. Collateral (2004; Michael Mann)
15. Back to the Future (1985; Robert Zemeckis)
16. The Green Mile (1999; Frank Darabont)
17. The Matrix (1999; The Wachowski Brothers)
18. Jurassic Park (1993; Steven Spielberg)
19. Galaxy Quest (1999; Dean Parisot)
20. The Lion King (1994; Roger Allers)
The rest of my Top 50 fluctuates wildly, but that Top 20 is rock-solid. So much so, that I haven’t even allowed any movie that I’ve seen for the first time since I started Flickcharting to dare crack that list. (The closest would be Pixar’s Up and WALL·E, which I love, and are indeed in my Top 30). I have my 20 favorite movies, they’re all in place, and it’s going to take a miracle for that to change.
Or so I thought.
See, an interesting thing has happened over the last couple of weeks. I’ve re-watched Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. (For those who weren’t paying attention, #7 and #18, respectively, on my hallowed list.) I thoroughly enjoyed them – despite having seen both at least a dozen times. After all, that’s how I rank; the movies at the top of my list are the ones most likely to be watched again by yours truly.
But dang it, now I’ve started wondering if I didn’t enjoy Jurassic Park more than T2…
This would not be a problem if these two movies were side-by-side in the rankings. Just rank ‘em and flip ‘em. But there are ten movies between T2 and Jurassic Park. Maybe I’ve decided that the dinosaurs are better than killer robots from the future… but are they better than all the movies I’d ranked ahead of them previously?
It’s an interesting conundrum. It’s no big deal to me if a movie in the middle of my Flickchart suddenly jumps ten places; with most of those mediocre films, the rankings are almost inconsequential to me. But halfway up my Top 20? Therein lies madness.
And it creates all manner of new questions. What about Aliens? Does the fact that I seemed to enjoy Jurassic Park more recently mean that Terminator 2 might not even be my favorite James Cameron movie anymore? Should JP move ahead of Collateral and Back to the Future in my rankings? Or should T2 move down?
Do I spend an hour just trying to re-rank my Top 20 again? And, if I do that, should I consider letting another movie onto the list (like the aforementioned Up or WALL·E)?
Or, would the only way to truly decide be to watch every other movie in my Top 20 again…?
To me, this would seem to be indefatigable proof that the Flickcharter’s work never done — especially for a Flickcharter like me, who always ranks by a single criteria: “Which movie would I rather watch right now?” Of course, the answer to that question at this moment is “any other movie in my Top 20 than Jurassic Park” – because I just watched it!
I legitimately love (or almost love) every movie in my current Top 200. (Well, except Hitman; I just kind of like that one, and I don’t know how it sneaked up to #196.) And thus, the Top 20 becomes like a bit of a double-edged sword: Is it legitimately a list of my favorite movies of all time? Or should it change on a regular basis, because, depending on how the mood strikes me, my favorite movie of all time could still be significantly farther down the list…?
Ultimately, that’s part of the joy of the Flickchart system: Our definitive lists of the greatest movies constantly shift and change, because our opinions of our favorite films can shift depending on our moods, repeat viewings, and the other unseen films that are waiting in the wings to challenge our perceptions of cinematic greatness.
This post is part of our User Showcase series. You can find Nigel as johnmason on Flickchart. If you’re interested to submit your own story or article describing your thoughts about movies and Flickchart, read our original post for how to become a guest writer here on the Flickchart Blog.
I’ll answer the primary question: You’re wrong about Jurassic Park being better than T2!
I too take great pains before giving a win to a movie that would move it into the top 20. But I also don’t think you should think too hard about it — the instinctive impulse is what’s important. Then again, that’s how Cocoon ended up in my top 20 for 2-3 months.
“The Dark Knight” topping “Star Wars” doesn’t bother me; “Lawrence of Arabia” not topping both of them bothers me! I’m tempted to make remarks about your personal top 20, but that’s really none of my business. I do, however, find it very representative of a lot of Flickcharters in that it is heavily skewed to 1) franchise movies and 2) movies from the 90s onward. I am also guilty of this, I will admit, and I can’t help but wonder what the larger implications are.
Does this mean that Flickchart’s users are primarily interested in action/geek franchises and/or movies that have been released during their own lifetime (most users, I’m assuming, were born in the very late 70s at the youngest)?
That’s the most obvious interpretation of the data, but I also have to wonder if it’s not also evidence that movie fans in general have better feelings about a movie they’ve seen in a theater (or at least remember being released theatrically); that it somehow personalizes the movie for them.
I’m usually a pretty quick Flickcharter: Within seconds, I’ve selected one movie or the other, and it’s actually pretty nowadays that a particular matchup really stumps me.
But, having said that, I constantly second-guess myself. I hit that “Undo” button all the time. And, sometimes, I allow the fact that a movie jumps 200 spots up my chart to make me undo my decision.
I’ve begun to realize that, although I’m quick on the draw, I’m actually pretty timid with my Flickchart. I hardly think it’s perfect yet, but I really do need to work on that instinctive ranking. Often, the first impulse IS the best.
@Travis McClain:
You’ve got an interesting theory about people leaning towards films they’ve seen in a theater. I’ve seen five of my Top 20 in the theater, including Jurassic Park (I was a perfect age for that one) and my Top 2. But I didn’t see the two movies that most threaten my Top 20 (Up and WALL·E) in the theater; I don’t know whether that criteria applies to me or not.
As for older films, well, I have to admit that I personally seem to have a bias towards them. Probably the highest-ranked film on my chart that is older than I am is Jaws, so that would say something about my love of blockbusters.
I don’t mind comments on my favorite films; blatantly negative criticism would be something else entirely! ;-)
Let me also say this: I rank very much according to how much I ENJOY a film. For example, I might think that Requiem for a Dream was technically a very good film, but it made me feel like crap, so it’s in my bottom 20.
Meanwhile, the merits of Roland Emmerich’s Independence Day as great cinema might certainly be debatable, but dammit, I had a GREAT time watching that movie in the theater as a teenager, and have enjoyed it every time I’ve seen it since; I do believe it’s in my Top 30.
Quite a few of the movies in my Top 20 have been favorites for a long time, so I suffer no inner conflict whenever a lesser movie goes up against them.
I can say that my tastes do not favor blockbusters, or recent movies. I try to watch a mixture of old and new as much as possible. The thought of having a list of favorites like the one above makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I like some mainstream hits and lighter fare, but damn. I try to expand my comfort zone at least a little bit every now and again.
I’m taking a different approach to Flickchart. If you look at my Profile (PCNewOnes) you’ll see that there are only 150 or so movies listed (at the time of typing). That’s because I’m only admitting films into my list that I’ve seen since I took a personal vow on 19th November 2009 to watch more films, to consider them more closely and to form an opinion about each and every one afterwards.
Since that date I’m up to 189 films (come on Flickchart, there’s more than 30 I’ve seen recently that aren’t on the database yet!), and it’s having an interesting effect on both my top 20 and bottom 20.
You see, I feel as if the extremes of my list are set in concrete and I’m loathe to adjust them much. I’ve honed both ends of my list with some very fine tuning and that intense effort, sweating over films that I love or loathe, has rewarded me with top and bottom 20 lists that I can definitely say I’m happy with. In fact, that precision is now extending to my top 30, which isn’t shifting around all that much.
But given that I’m adding new films to my personal list almost every day, it’s very possible that I’m going to see something that’ll shake things up. In fact, I know there’s many films out there that I’ve seen before, that *will* shake things up when I get round to viewing them again. I can’t afford to be too closed-minded about it.
Maybe when I hit an important milestone (say 1000 films), I’ll create a new account and start all over again with a blank slate. Just to see if it comes out the same a second time…
@Charlie Johnson: I think that’s a really neat approach, only ranking films that you’ve seen since you started Flickcharting. It’s a great idea, really, and it saves the whole struggle about ranking films that you know you’ve seen, but can’t remember well. (For example, by all rights, I should not be ranking E.T. or Pulp Fiction, really; I’ve seen them, but it’s been so long, I don’t remember them well enough. As a bit of a completist, though, something in me compels me to rank them.)
@KingofPain: Ouch. It takes all kinds, you know. Everyone’s tastes in movies are different. Hence, the beauty of Flickchart. I happen to like a lot of blockbusters. (I happen to dislike a lot of them, too, but that’s not the point.) I can’t criticize another person’s Flickchart, because everybody’s got their own opinion, and there’s no right or wrong.
I was just kidding, mostly. I share the same “no right or wrong” philosophy when it comes to liking movies. I rank according to enjoyment as well. My concern is more about diversity, I guess. I want to see as many different sorts of movies that I possibly can just to make sure I’m not missing anything.
Even though I like some of the highest ranked movies on Flickchart, the combination of movies is disappointingly typical. I’m not a highbrow movie watcher by any measure, but I am a curious one. Too many people seem to like the same movies, as though the rest of film history doesn’t exist. There are so many other movies out there.
I’m looking at the Top 100 right now, and it appears that Casablanca is the only old school movie listed. Casablanca is a good movie, but by looking at the rest of list I get the impression that nobody has ever seen any other “classic” movies. Casablanca is like some token classic. Sure, The Godfather movies are on nthere, but everybody picks those. All the other movies on the list are pretty much blockbusters or fairly recent. Come on! There is nothing on that list to indicate anybody even tries to explore a variety of movies.
It’s depressing.
King,
I agree that with your take on the top 100. But that only means that Flickchart is an accurate snapshot of our society on the whole, which is probably a good thing. Sure, it would be great if FC were a paradise for discriminating film lovers, and Michelangelo Antonioni’s Blow Up were #1. But I also like the fact that it has grown in popularity to the point that the way our society on the whole would really answer is reflected in the global rankings. If you asked most people their favorite movie, they probably WOULD say The Dark Knight, because that’s the touchpoint for a lot of young people, and for people with bad memories, it’s the most recent movie they can remember that blew them away. (It didn’t totally blow me away — a topic for another time.)
You also have to consider the way Flickchart gives you movies, which I haven’t heard discussed that much on this blog. Until you discover how to open up the list to all the movies in the database, you keep ranking the original 350-400 — I don’t know if that number has increased, but when I first started back in October, I reached 10,000 rankings or so before I even realized there were any other movies to rank. (I guess I thought I caught Flickchart in its infancy.) Therefore, the titles that are part of that popular group of 350-400 are going to be far more significantly represented in the top 100 than Blow Up. And while we may quibble with those 350-400 titles, we really shouldn’t, because that helps in the democratization of Flickchart as well. If the casual Flickcharter happens upon the site and wants to see what it’s all about, he/she will be turned off if the first choice is between Blow Up and 8 1/2, and the next choice is between The Bicycle Thief and The Lost Weekend. He/she will just say “Meh” and move on.
I think you both have very valid points.
There’s also the fact that the movies that were originally on Flickchart have a great many rankings to them, and it takes a lot more rankings for a movie that is newer to the database to register.
Take a look at the chart for 2009. The highest-ranked movies (so far) are Star Trek and Watchmen. I know that those two movies were in the database a lot longer than most of the other higher-ranked films from ’09. I would fully expect that Watchmen, at least, would rank a lot lower on the list, but the other films need to be ranked more before they rise on the global charts.
I became frustrated with the movies offered for ranking fairly early when I first started. I figured out how to rank my favored movies and had them arranged partially to my liking not long after. Maybe Flickchart should offer an option that allows users to rank movies of varying degrees of popularity, so not everyone gets stuck with blockbusters when they join.
I understand the psychology of why certain movies are ranked highly, but seeing the same movies all the time gets tedious. I check out a lot of movie rating sites, and this “problem” is prevalent. Like I said, I’m not a film snob or anything like that. I guess I’ve just evolved beyond thinking that debating the merits of the Star Wars movies ad infinitum is the pinnacle of movie appreciation. I don’t necessarily want all art films listed in the Top 100, I just’d like to see more variety.
And @KingofPain:
I really must make a confession. Some movies that were in my dad’s VHS collection when I was a teen, and I COULD have watched, but chose not to (for reasons that escape me now), include: Casablanca, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Bonnie and Clyde…. I still haven’t seen The Godfather, and sometimes I wonder if I won’t just keep it that way, just so I can keep telling people that I’ve never seen The Godfather.
I do certainly try and broaden my horizons from time to time, but I guess I see movies as entertainment first and art second. (Which is not to say I don’t think a movie can be both; I think most of the films in my Top 20 qualify as art, but Children of Men, especially, would be what I consider a good example of that.)
I just know that a lot of times, I’ll try something a little more obscure that’s gotten good reviews, or whatever, and I don’t see the big deal. And my favorite Best Picture Oscar winners are always going to be movies like The Return of the King, Gladiator and Titanic. Can’t help it. Oh well.
I do want to try new movies from time to time. But, I never seem to have enough time (especially since I spend so much of it on Flickchart!), and so I tend to stick to what I really do think I’m going to like.
You’re correct that at first you’re shown more popular movies. The more you rank though, the more obscure of a selection you’ll get. You’re also correct that most people will get bored and frustrated very quickly if the matchups were truly random among all 12,000+ films that we have in the database. The regular “All Movies” mode is set to gradually ease in less popular films into the matchups, but we also offer the more unique filters, like “Only Unranked” or any of the decade/year/genre filters that really let you explore your options in a broader fashion.
We have quite a few ideas that should make for some more interesting ways to view the Charts. All in good time.
I almost always use the “Your Whole List” filter, while checking the “Only Unranked” every once in a while. I should really probably switch it up every now and then….
johnmason
Probably about seven years ago is when I really started trying to diversify my tastes. Before that, I didn’t venture out into unknown territory quite as much. Through a lot of trial and error, I’ve discovered quite a few movies that I never knew I’d enjoy.
I don’t care if a movie won awards or is considered a classic; I just watch the movies and decide for myself what is good. It takes some time, but eventually your horizons will be broadened. You just have to jump in and find your own way.
There is no movie that you have to like. It doesn’t even matter if you watch The Godfather. But there could be movies out there you don’t know about that might open up your perspective on film. I don’t think anybody is destined to just like blockbusters, or whatever. Tastes can evolve.
How come I never get this many comments on *my* Flickchart blog posts? ;-)
Because I opened up a can of worms by brazenly throwing my Top 20 out there… ;)
Since we’re talking about the way movies are presented, maybe I’ll see if Nathan wants to chime in on this one … is it really random when I get a duel between Apocalypse Now and Apocalypto? Or between Redcated and Rendition? Or between Raging Bull and Rocky? I’d love to know how those filters work … although I also understand that the wizard needs to stay hidden behind the curtain …
Yeah, all of those would be random for sure. The holiday matchups are our doing, and we might occasionally throw in some other gems, but on the whole the ironic pairs you get are conjured from the mind of the machine.
We do have many other things we want to do filter-wise, and to the algorithms of what you’re presented with, and how efficient vs. fun the process is… there are a lot of plates to spin, but we’ve got no shortage of ideas, only shortage of time to do it.
21 vs. 21 Grams was a fun one I had a while ago. I love when those kinds of matches come up. And I always like the holiday ones. (Good one for April Fool’s Day, by the way, Nathan.)
I must say, yet again, that you guys do a really great job running this site. It’s really appreciated, and with regard to all the ideas you’ve got, well, I’m just amazed at how much you guys already DO get done!